Fwd: Future of Mercurial?

Tue Mar 12 05:49:38 UTC 2019

gmail dropped the cc: [sigh]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Somchai Smythe <buraphalinuxserver at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2019 12:47:15 +0700
Subject: Re: Future of Mercurial?
To: Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343 at gmail.com>

Well, I don't know, maybe the web site moved.  I downloaded from
mercurial-scm.org today, and can say with confidence that no released
mercurial works for python3.  I downloaded the last release version,
4.9, (the march 2019 version is missing) after I got you email and
tested it:

$gpg2 --verify mercurial-4.9.tar.gz.asc mercurial-4.9.tar.gz
gpg: Signature made Sat 02 Feb 2019 01:53:32 AM +07
gpg:                using RSA key 2BCCE14F5C6725AA2EA8AEB7B9C9DC824AA5BDD5
gpg: Good signature from "Augie Fackler <raf at durin42.com>" [expired]
gpg: Note: This key has expired!
Primary key fingerprint: 2BCC E14F 5C67 25AA 2EA8  AEB7 B9C9 DC82 4AA5 BDD5
$tar xzf mercurial-4.9.tar.gz
$cd mercurial-4.9
$python3 setup.py build --verbose

Mercurial only supports Python 2.7.
Python sys.version_info(major=3, minor=6, micro=7,
releaselevel='final', serial=0) detected.
Please re-run with Python 2.7.

$

On 3/12/19, Nathan Goldbaum <nathan12343 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Mercurial’s default branch more or less
> completely works under python3. I think there are only a few failing tests
> at this point.
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 10:40 PM Somchai Smythe <
> buraphalinuxserver at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well, I'll tell you my perspective, but I admit my use case is
>> probably not common and my opinions are probably controversial.  Maybe
>> it'll spark a response that states the plan going forward, and we'd
>> all like know if there is such a plan, and if it exists what it is and
>> what the timeframe is.
>>
>> Mercurial doesn't really work with python3, and python2 is pretty much
>> end-of-life.  Switching to git is the only viable option unless the
>> mercurial people fix this, and they seem to be unable or unwilling to
>> embrace python3.  This is why I switched all my projects to git, even
>> though I much prefer mercurial.  I need something that works
>> cross-platform and will still be working in the years to come, and
>> anything which requires python2 is doomed.  I even had to throw out
>> all my teaching materials and rewrite them for git (that was a
>> non-trivial exerciese).  Trying to teach git to students new to Linux,
>> well, it's turned out to be about 10 times harder than teaching
>> mercurial to them.  But I don't want to teach dead-end technology
>> since it won't be useful to them after graduation.
>>
>> I'm depressed by the fact that even after all this time the mercurial
>> maintainers didn't either learn python3 or rewrite it in straight C,
>> but they've hinted they'll go with rust.  My non-teaching systems
>> where I once used mercurial are all offline systems and I use
>> thumbdrives to move data on and off of them. The rust toolchain
>> requires a live internet connection to even build, so I cannot work
>> with that toolchain.  How can people even trust something that makes
>> it practically impossible to see the source they are actually building
>> with without using tcpdump/wireshark to capture the streams?  The
>> proponents claim rust is more secure, but who can actually be sure
>> since it downloads code you cannot reivew during the build?  It could
>> put _anything_ in there and you'd never know it until too late.  And
>> yeah, I had to dump firefox for the same reason.  If they had chosen
>> 'go', C or C++, they don't have these rust issues and I'd be willing
>> to try it.
>>
>> Meanwhile, git builds fine without an internet connection, it handles
>> the linux kernel fine which certainly builds my confidence it can
>> handle anything I'll ever need to do with it, even microsoft has
>> switched to git, and it sure seems to me it'll be the last vcs
>> standing when the dust settles.  The fact that git is also the most
>> difficult and tedious to use is unfortunate, but a price most seem
>> willing to pay to get one ubiquitous vcs that builds and runs
>> anywhere, builds easily, and is designed for high performance.
>>
>> If, and this is rather unlikely, the mercurial team ditched rust and
>> embraced python3, which also runs everywhere I care about, I might
>> consider switching back, but switching vcs keeping history, tags, etc.
>> is so much trouble I suspect most large projects wouldn't even
>> consider it once they've completed their switch to git.
>>
>> If mercurial wants to remain alive, the maintainers need to deliver a
>> drop-in replacement, even if it is a rust-based thing that wouldn't
>> work for me, that doesn't use the doomed python2, and it'll need to be
>> backwards compatible with the older hg repos.  It could still happen,
>> but is it wise to rely on that?  Only you can evaluate the risk and
>> make that decision.
>>
>> Since the linux distribution I use doesn't even have python2 any more,
>> the decision has already been made for me.
>>
>>
>> On 3/10/19, Harley Leyton <voldermort at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > -- The following is written in good faith for frank, honest discussion
>> > --
>> >
>> > I began using hg many years ago, back when git had a horrible UI and
>> didn't
>> > work on Windows. Since then, git has become fully supported on Windows
>> and
>> > the UI has much improved. hg still has the edge for user-friendliness
>> > and
>> > cross-platform support, but git has almost 100% of the mindshare and
>> market.
>> >
>> > I've been stubbornly sticking with hg for hobby projects, but I almost
>> never
>> > encounter anything other than git in the open source and commercial
>> worlds.
>> > (I'm aware that hg is used in both, but this is a rare exception.) hg
>> seems
>> > to be going very much in the direction of bzr, although we're clearly
>> > not
>> > there yet.
>> >
>> > I'm interested in more positive - but realistic - perspectives.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Mercurial mailing list
>> > Mercurial at mercurial-scm.org
>> > https://www.mercurial-scm.org/mailman/listinfo/mercurial
>> >
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